t’s hard to think of a problem more wicked than the Israel/Palestine. In recent weeks our social media feeds have been flooded with truly heartbreaking videos of violence and displacement, prompting some to go as far as to declare Israel an apartheid state. But as is often the case, reality remains far too complicated to fit into such oversimplified narratives. As I say in the discussion, this is one of those problems where the more I learn about it, the less I feel I understand.

It’s hard to know how to move forward. Fortunately our special guest today, Magdalena Smieszek, has some really good ideas. Magdalena is an international human rights lawyer who has spent a good deal of time in the region, and who is using integral ideas, perspectives, and practices in order to reduce suffering in the world. She is a truly inspiring and deeply accomplished woman, and we are thrilled to have her on the show with us today to help us make more integral sense of the Israel/Palestine conflict, and how we might begin to loosen this Gordian knot.

Watch as Magdalena, Mark, and I explore the long and complex history of the region, offer our own thoughts on whether Israel qualifies as an “apartheid state”, and suggest some next step solutions in order to inch ourselves closer to genuine peace, stability, and justice for the men, women, and children on all sides of this seemingly intractable conflict.

Topics include:

0:00 — Introducing Magdalena
12:26 — A Brief History of the Israel/Palestine Conflict
37:23 – Is Israel an Apartheid State?
58:51 — How can Integral Ideas Help?
1:16:02 — Evolutionary Optimism
1:30:52 — The Power of Nonviolence

If you enjoy this episode, be sure to check out more episodes of Integral Justice Warrior. Watch them all for only $1!

Written and produced by Corey deVos